Curse

Lux Aeterna · Oct 19, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Use this build and your DPS will instantly increase a great deal.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:W/an..._Slash_Warrior

Notes:

- Dragon slash charges in one hit.
- Unless you're blind you should be able to do 60-70 dps even without party buffs.
- This build buffs party armor +100 and is capable of KD locking a level 31 elementalist boss for 30 seconds.
- If you run in first you will eat lots of damage and hexes, that's just because your enemies are scared of you.

As was said, warrior is all about being aggressive - if you aren't hyperaggressive about shredding things shredding shredding shredding things hyperaggressiveGRRRRRR,
warrior may not be for you and you should probably play elementand you should probably play elementalist.

Ben-A-BoO · Oct 19, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

...

Well spoken!
A good read and nicely summed up.

Thanks for sharing.

Reverend Dr · Oct 19, 2009, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windf0rce

often I'm Flail-stuck because things die faster than I'd hope and I'm out of Adren...

There are many that think that flail is the best thing in the world and never bother to accept any criticism otherwise. If you feel you get stuck in flail too often, try replacing it with drunken master, even if you use drunken master sober, just try it. Especially considering its cost/duration drunken master is the most effective IAS stance even when it isn't used with alcohol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Use this build and your DPS will instantly increase a great deal.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:W/an..._Slash_Warrior

That Dragonslash bar sucks and here's why. Adrenal skills use up 1 adrenaline across all skills and no amount of extra adrenaline gain from FGJ or DS will cure that. The only adrenal skills that can be chained together are attack skills, as the attack itself recovers the adrenaline lost during the attack. Hit FGJ + enraging and everything is charged. At once you want to use SY, Flail, and DS, but you can't. Use flail, have to wait a hit before you can use anything elese. Then use SY, again have to wait. This build has so many regular auto attacks when it should be using +DMG attacks.

Then there is brawling headbutt that the PvX community has such a hard on for. It isn't affected by IAS, so its going to cast at the same speed as anything else, it isn't an attack so it is going to force an extra auto-attack and what's the point of putting a mob on the ground to get some extra auto attacks when you could have just streight up killed it beforehand. It only works well with steelfang (which would beg the question as to why bring DS) as a rather low damage warrior trying to mimick an imbagon. And even then great dwarf weapon accomplishes the KD while increasing DPS rather than halting attack and using a strike of adrenaline.

Then there is flail itself. I think it is a terrible skill which costs far more to use than most people ever bother to think about. If you aren't slotting rush you just do not have a quick way to get out of flail. Mob dies, use rush, have to get an auto attack before flail is charged again, activate flail, get a second auto attack before you can do anything, rush/flail puts down your adrenaline gain in a way that DS and FGJ can't cover. Use an energy based switch stance and you'll be hurting for energy. I've only seen flail not suffer this adrenaline depletion in an Warrior's Endurance build with dash, that build hardly relies on adrenaline.

That Dragonslash bar works because it has a lot of powerful skills thrown together. It doesn't work well because so many of those skills, while powerful in their own respect, don't synergize well at all. As far as teaching someone how to make a decent bar, or especially a bar within a team, it is absolutely a horrible example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Asuran Scan. . . Assuming at least 1 kill every 5 sec, Arsuan Scan is going to consume energy at 150% of your energy regen rate, not even counting any other energy-based skills you may have. Even with a zealous weapon, you can only afford to use it sparingly - in which case, what's the point? "

It is indeed about team damage and most of what you wrote is good, but this is where I am going to have to disagree. I've already mentioned warrior's endurance. While I hate the skill and think that it is incredibly degenerate, it is effective and at the end of the day that is what everything is about. Can I really charge an adrenal attack more than once every 3 seconds? If not why not just get the +dmg from powerattack? If I never have to use adrenaline for anything else on my bar won't SY be charged much more often?

What I end up running most of the time is as follows:
[free]
[power attack]
[protector's strike]
[save yourself]
[warrior's endurance]
[asuran scan]
[drunken master]
[res]

This doesn't specify a weapon. It doesn't need to, this can be run with any melee weapon. In contrast to you saying axe is bad in PvE, I normally run this with axe for dismember. Someone is also going to tell me that prot strike is bad; with SoH, great dwarf, and asuran scan even the smallest auto attacks hit for over 80, prot strike is a fast activating attack and just like an IAS it allows me to get off more hits in the same period of time. With low end damage around 80 and higher crits around 120 (before +dmg from skills) those extra hits add up significantly.

This build is a bit different than speccing for synergy with curses. Don't get me wrong mark of pain and barbs are very powerful, but when mobs are killed in little more than 3 hits, how far can mark of pain go and what use was barbs? If you know a zone well and can group mobs then hundred blades + whirling + mark of pain can blow up groups extremely fast. However if you don't know a zone, can't group mobs, or mobs scatter then having enough damage behind you to make and sustain kills on isolated mobs (similar to how discordway works) is the most effective route.

Bobby2 · Oct 19, 2009, 11:48 PM // 23:48

No Cyclone Axe?

Perfected Shadow · Oct 20, 2009, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Hi there.
I've been looking through the warrior guide and pretty much all the warrior threads(pve wise).
I read almost everywhere that warriors can unleash high damage(like 100 dps),but i really can't make it.
My current weapon/shield is this:
-Droknar's Sword
-Lotus shield of fortitude (hp+ 30/+10 armor vs slashing)
Against enemies i put really low damage,making my warrior only a tank,when a warrior role is to blow stuff up.
Any help would be really appreciated,thank you.

You should try Warrior's Endurance bars first instead of D-Slash bars. WE is more forgiving since you don't have to worry about mobs dying just before D-Slash hits, when to hold off the D-Slash, etc. As for dps, anyone care to test D-Slash vs. WE?

Reverend Dr · Oct 20, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

No Cyclone Axe?

Why would I ever bring cyclone axe? Aside from being able to trigger mark of pain or barbs (which as stated before is far better with hundred blades and is ultimately reliant upon a necro rather than innate warrior skills), warriors have piss poor AoE damage. Earthshaker can be very nice, but AoE KD-lock is still not AoE damage. Rather than putting in some mediocre AoE I'd rather put it into being able to drop a single target quickly.

Terek Zelta · Oct 20, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Okay! There's a lot of good information here, but I want to add some stuff too.

First of all, I'm going to just say this: You don't need lots of PVE skills like Asuran Scan to wreak havoc on the battlefield. You don't. The key to high damage on a warrior is this: Adrenaline management!

The build that I run the most in PVE, in both NM and HM (pretty exclusive to HM for a while now), is this.

Eviscerate
Body Blow
Brawling Headbutt
Cyclone Axe
For Great Justice!
Flail
Enraging Charge
Sunspear Rebirth Signet

That's it. I run it with a furious axe, and sometimes I switch out FGJ or the resurrection skill for Lion's Comfort. The way the furious mod interacts with Enraging Charge, Cyclone Axe and Lion's Comfort enables me to build adrenaline really fast while not under FGJ. I tear stuff up faster than the warriors I group with who lay on the PVE skills, and the reason is because I know how to manage my adrenaline.

The secret to high warrior DPS is high adrenaline gain. Things like Strength of Honor, Asuran Scan, et al. of course boost your attack power to ridiculous(ly fun) levels, but high adrenaline gain is what truly yields the high DPS.

Use Flail. Flail and adrenaline will turn you into a good warrior. For that matter, so will Frenzy. Learn how to manage Flail's snare effect and Enraging Charge's recharge time, learn how to manage your adrenaline, and you'll be a war god, hehe.

For example, in the build above, I have four/five independent ways of gaining adrenaline that synergize well with one another, but also tend to have more than one function: my furious mod, Cyclone Axe which doubles as both a decent AoE attack and a means of gaining adrenaline and synergizes with the furious mod on my axe, FGJ which is adrenaline god-mode, and Enraging Charge which synergizes especially well with furious mods and FGJ. Lion's Comfort interacts with the furious mod similarly to Enraging Charge, but a lot of people approach it as a self-heal - it isn't, it's adrenaline management that doubles as a small heal.

Warriors do kind of need more adrenaline management skills, as stopping to build adrenaline with Lion's Comfort, even when it nets you 4-5 adrenaline 2/3 of the time, can be a hassle, and breaks up a warrior's flow. But everything you need is there. If you don't run Sentinel's insignias, try putting 8 points into Tactics for "To The Limit!" if you want.

Part of why you're doing such low damage is because you're using a sundering sword. Use vampiric or furious on a sword and make sure you're using a good build. Dragon Slash and Hundred Blades are amazing. Hundred Blades is just stupid if you have a source Mark of Pain in your group - especially if it's an Assassin's Promise MoP nuker.

For swords, we manage our adrenaline during FGJ's downtime in much the same way as axes, only Whirlwind Attack replaces Cyclone Axe. For Dragon Slash builds, I bring Brawling Headbutt and Steelfang Slash, and it works flawlessly.

That all said, remember this: if your team is incompetent, you won't be doing much regardless. So it's not always entirely your fault, sometimes you just have a bad backline, or you get those lolcharge warriors who overaggro. Or the assassins who think they have 100 AR. Or the monks who say, "It's not my job to keep you alive" (true story.)

Chthon · Oct 20, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

There are many that think that flail is the best thing in the world and never bother to accept any criticism otherwise. If you feel you get stuck in flail too often, try replacing it with drunken master, even if you use drunken master sober, just try it.... I think it is a terrible skill

Agreed that flail is overrated. The self-snare really hurts. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's a terrible skill though. Drunken master is a fine alternative, even sober. In the age of the ER ele, I also have no fear of frenzy. In fact, that's what I use on many builds.

Quote:

That Dragonslash bar sucks and here's why.

Like many things on wiki, that DS bar is the worst possible variation on a very good build concept. I considered going over it's flaws when I saw it posted, but I decided not to because I feared criticism of the details might be mistaken for criticism of the overall concept.

Quote:

Then there is brawling headbutt that the PvX community has such a hard on for. It isn't affected by IAS, so its going to cast at the same speed as anything else, it isn't an attack so it is going to force an extra auto-attack and what's the point of putting a mob on the ground to get some extra auto attacks when you could have just streight up killed it beforehand.

KD is a combination hard interrupt + snare + skill disable. That's very nice. While it costs you activation time and some adrenaline, it's often worth the cost.

Quote:

And even then great dwarf weapon accomplishes the KD

GDW is amazing, but the KD is unfocused disruption, not on-demand.

Quote:

I'll concede that WE gives you enough energy to run Asuran Scan with no trouble. The problem is that it leaves you with a Warrior's Endurance build, and I've never been particularly impressed by those.

Perfected Shadow · Oct 20, 2009, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Why would I ever bring cyclone axe?

If you're buffed with GDW, you can shake the earth with an axe!
But really what's so bad about aoe hits when you're buffed with SoH, orders, GDW? You also get more adren. for dismember and SY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

The problem is that it leaves you with a Warrior's Endurance build, and I've never been particularly impressed by those.

In terms of SY upkeep and kds yeah, but I've always thought that WE bars pump out the best warrior damage. Am I wrong? WTB MoD tests: Warrior's Endurance bars vs. whatever you think does more damage.

Reverend Dr · Oct 20, 2009, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Managing flail and watching recharge time for enraging and getting stranded in flail can be cut down to next to nothing. Though I hardly see the point in learning how to manage flail effectively over managing frenzy effectively. Even then frenzy is 5 energy every 8 seconds and drunken master is 5 energy every 80 seconds, from a cost standpoint nothing else (aside from consumables) can really compare to drunken.

I am well aware that the KD of brawling headbutt is a hard interrupt, but too many things in PvE are immune to KD's. Even then I don't see the point of a hard interrupt to prevent ele damage when things like prot spirit don't take a PvE slot and will accomplish the same thing, I don't see the point of it holding back monk skills when even the most powerful mob bars can easily be overpowered. It is a strong skill, there are just better skills to take.

I don't like cyclone and fueling adrenaline for save yourself and dismember hardly matter. Doubling up on the dismember doesn't add an extra 100 damage and its charged for nearly every target anyway. Since I don't have anything else to use adrenaline on keeping up SY isn't difficult either.

When supported WE is incredibly powerful. Try it sometime when you can get SoH and GDW. 21 SOH + 17 GDW + 36 Power attack under a 50% asuran scan ends up being +111 and that's on a 3 second recharge. Keeping up asuran on every target will make things drop at a speed comparable to discordway.

Now don't get me wrong, I think WE should not be in the game. It gives a warrior energy management greater than a caster and completely neglects the need for adrenaline management (or adrenaline period), but it is very effective; the version on PvX is just a horrible version someone bothered to throw in. Also consider running it with scythe or hammer using mystic and eremites as the free slot and power attack.

Tenebrae · Oct 20, 2009, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

When supported WE is incredibly powerful. Try it sometime when you can get SoH and GDW. 21 SOH + 17 GDW + 36 Power attack under a 50% asuran scan ends up being +111 and that's on a 3 second recharge. Keeping up asuran on every target will make things drop at a speed comparable to discordway.

Now don't get me wrong, I think WE should not be in the game. It gives a warrior energy management greater than a caster and completely neglects the need for adrenaline management (or adrenaline period), but it is very effective; the version on PvX is just a horrible version someone bothered to throw in. Also consider running it with scythe or hammer using mystic and eremites as the free slot and power attack.

Agree , with WE you dont even need a Zealous wep. Using a 20/20 weapon with those buffs , asuran scan and cracked armor on curses necro is a bloody insane damage output. Ofc if you are into a SY warrior you should use another stuff but if you are there only for damage ...... well that is a top 5 option imo .

qvtkc · Oct 20, 2009, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Chthon that was nice, one thing though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Nightmare Weapon - disfavored when human teammates are present because of anti-synergy with Great Dwarf Weapon, which is superior. Also disfavored wherever your attacks would normally do more damage than the amount of life steal.

The bolded part is partly incorrect.

For 12 seconds, target ally has a Nightmare Weapon. Target ally's next 3 attacks are reduced by 10...42 damage and steal up to 10...42 Health.

In other words, @15 channeling, if your attack would hit for 80, you will do 50 lifesteal and 30 damage, still adding up to 80. However, Asuran Scan and By Ural's Hammer will multiply that 30 damage, not the full 80. In other words while you'd be hitting for 160 without Nightmare Weapon you'd be hitting for 110 with it. The 50 damage deficit must be weighed against those of your attacks which would normally do less than 50 damage, but which with Nightmare Weapon would still do 50 lifesteal. In other words don't bother with Nightmare Weapon if you are already creating large damage packets.

draxynnic · Oct 20, 2009, 11:52 AM // 11:52

My 2c?

The main problem with Drunken Master is that it doesn't work well with Enraging Charge (or any other stance, really) because of its 60 second recharge - in that time you may have wanted to use Enraging again two or three times, any such use would leave you without an IAS. Generally, I'd advise using Flail with afrenaline-based builds using Enraging Charge (Frenzy if you're confident in your backline or just that gutsy) and Drunken Master for anything else.

WE builds are probably the best for learning, but I'd advise getting to know the competition - DS, Earthshaker, Hundred Blades - as well.

Bobby2 · Oct 20, 2009, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Why would I ever bring cyclone axe? ..... Rather than putting in some mediocre AoE I'd rather put it into being able to drop a single target quickly.

Yeah yeah, I know where you're coming from with this. But to me, it has enough upsides to consider (used as an adren boost more than anything else).

qvtkc · Oct 20, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

I prefer Furious Axe over Cyclone, and Whirlwind Attack is good enough at picking up adrenaline from all around me.

Urr · Oct 20, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Thank you all,now i have a lot on information to build up my warrior ^^.
Actually i got 12 in swordmanship,my char started at prophecies and i still have to do the 2 quests that give 30 skill points in total.
I'm not using any rune right now,except vitae and survivor insignae;luckyly i found a guild,and my warrior mates and the others are helping me a lot with equip/build matters.
Now i got skill like "I am the Strongest!" and Dragon slash,so now my damage improved a bit,though it still sucks a bit(Eg:today against liv 17 devourer in prophecies i was hitting 40-70 and i'm liv 20..).
Yes maybe i also lack of aggressiveness(more Berserk,rawr ^^) and adrenaline control.
With hard training and lot of pratice i hope i will get better.
Actually i have tried times ago a dervish and an assassin,and didn't get any damage problem with them,maybe they are a bit easier to use(finesse matter?).Argh.

Terek Zelta · Oct 20, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

My 2c?

The main problem with Drunken Master is that it doesn't work well with Enraging Charge (or any other stance, really) because of its 60 second recharge - in that time you may have wanted to use Enraging again two or three times, any such use would leave you without an IAS. Generally, I'd advise using Flail with afrenaline-based builds using Enraging Charge (Frenzy if you're confident in your backline or just that gutsy) and Drunken Master for anything else.

WE builds are probably the best for learning, but I'd advise getting to know the competition - DS, Earthshaker, Hundred Blades - as well.

Bingo. That's exactly why I don't use Drunken Master.

I used to have a real problem with Flail. Not anymore. You have to learn to control its duration and Enraging Charge's recharge time, and it's not hard, it just takes practice. In the last few weeks, I've honestly only had one issue with Flail. Near the end of a battle, I hit the wrong key and activated it instead of Enraging Charge, which threw off my timing and kept me snared for a good 5-6 seconds in the aftermath. Even that was due to my own stupidity, though, not Flail.

Brawling Headbutt is golden, and part of why some of you have issues with Flail is because you don't use a KD or snare of any kind. Yeah, a good amount of enemies are immune to KDs, but 9 times out of 10, the enemy that's about to kite you isn't.

Brawling Headbutt is also spike assist, and is the reason endgame HM monks and mesmers are so easy to bring down for my group. Pressure a monk a bit, cast Barbs, coordinate a spike, then KD it, and while it's on the floor for those 3 seconds, Eviscerate -> Body Blow -> other simultaneous attacks from your team, and its health drops from 70-80% to 0 almost immediately.

And yeah, I agree, Bobby. Cyclone used as an adrenaline boost is awesome, but when you add things like SoH, GDW, Splinter Weapon, Mark of Pain, Dark Fury, or anything like that, it becomes a non-elite Triple Chop+ very quickly. Hitting everything around me for 50-60 damage unbuffed is awesome. Slamming everything around me for 90 damage with SoH (10 points into Smiting Prayers on my SS necro) and then adding Splinter Weapon to that is even better!

When you're using an axe, in most cases, having an extra single target attack won't do much, I've found. Having Executioner's Strike and Body Blow on one bar for me is just redundant, because the majority of my damage comes from deep wounding something with a 100 damage attack, and then triggering that deep wound instantly with a 120 damage attack. I run Eviscerate for that reason: it's awesome bar compression. Not to mention, under FGJ, they recharge in a couple seconds anyway, so if I need another attack, it's always there.

Warrior's Endurance is okay, but I find that anything I can accomplish with Asuran Scan, I can accomplish without it. And I tested and confirmed this against bosses like NOX. The bigger yellow numbers don't excuse forgoing an important utility to me, and then I have to deal with the aftercast delay, which, granted, isn't an issue so much anymore now that I know how to use it (

), but still. Same goes for SY. Anything I can accomplish with SY, I can accomplish without it with proper technique, pulling, team coordination, having good healers(!), etc.

I play my warrior like a sort of "utility damage dealer." I have different types of damage on my bars, KDs or interrupts when I need them, and I still achieve the same damage as my other warrior friends, because, like I said, with the right bar, having too many of the same attacks starts becoming redundant. I make sure I pack good utility (I pug a lot and it's necessary) without sacrificing my damage, but I'm also not going for the highest damage possible - I'm going for what I need, because it creates a more balanced setup. A lot of monk builds I know of only have one or two heals, because it's all they need. This frees up their bars for lots of protection and utility. I take a similar approach, only with more varied damage dealing and self-management options instead of protecting the rest of my group.

SweFighter · Oct 20, 2009, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I hate you and everything you stand for.

lol? axe is the bets think in pve^^I love it.

Chthon · Oct 20, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Chthon that was nice, one thing thoughThe bolded part is partly incorrect.

For 12 seconds, target ally has a Nightmare Weapon. Target ally's next 3 attacks are reduced by 10...42 damage and steal up to 10...42 Health.

In other words, @15 channeling, if your attack would hit for 80, you will do 50 lifesteal and 30 damage, still adding up to 80. However, Asuran Scan and By Ural's Hammer will multiply that 30 damage, not the full 80. In other words while you'd be hitting for 160 without Nightmare Weapon you'd be hitting for 110 with it. The 50 damage deficit must be weighed against those of your attacks which would normally do less than 50 damage, but which with Nightmare Weapon would still do 50 lifesteal. In other words don't bother with Nightmare Weapon if you are already creating large damage packets.

I think that is what I was trying to say, although apparently I failed.

There's 3 scenarios for NW:
1. You'd otherwise do a tiny hit, but instead get the full lifesteal. That's a buff and a heal. Ex: You would hit for 5, but instead hit for 0 and steal 50.
2. You'd otherwise do a large hit, but instead do a smaller hit and get the full lifesteal, totaling the same as the large hit would have been. That's a heal, but not a buff. Ex: You would hit for 60, but instead hit for 10 and steal 50.
3. You'd otherwise do a large hit, but instead do a smaller hit and get the full lifesteal, totaling the less than the large hit would have been. As you point out, this can happen because of Asuran Scan & BuH. This is a heal, but also a debuff. Ex: the example in your post.

I consider NW disfavored in both situations 2 & 3. I would only consider it usable in situation 1.

Lux Aeterna · Oct 21, 2009, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Lots of stuff

Alternatively, you could just ping your H/H into mobs and go afk.
I find any other form of pve painfully boring, I mean I almost DIED trying to cap RtL.